> What, ZOPE sucks?
No, wouldn't say so. However:
I'm a python enthusiast, but up to now, I wasn't able to find ANY python web development framework comparable to J2EE with respect to the learning curve.
I took some time and tried several python solutions:
CGIHTTPServer and low-level from the standard modules It is fine as a sample and easy to learn, but far from being production based. It took me days to find out how to write a multi-threaded server. I could help very much if there wasn't only the 5-line sample code, but also a multi-threaded server program that at least works fast enough for in-house use.
And, even worse, though the HTTPServer and cgtib are both standard modules, there seems to be no easy way or example of how to actually let them work together.
What we need is at least a basic standard solution using a multi-threaded CGI server together with the cgitb routines.
twisted Fine ideas, very promising, but needs a complete new way of development. I read the docco several hours. It is just too different from everything else, so it is ruled out. You'll never set up some hello world examples after 2 hours like with JSP.
mod_python The best standard solution, I think, but: I agree with some others here. The main problem with mod_python is the lack of a good Apache 1.3 version. For example, we are using Oracle Application Servers for production (based on Apache 1.3), so mod_python is out of the race automatically.
ZOPE Zope is a world of it's own. Just like twisted, there's too much to learn for a quick start. And with all those different template languages, it's confusing.
In my work, I'm forced to use J2EE. I don't really like it, because * I have to use Java (better than C, but ways behind Python) * Development is SOOOO slow * J2EE is a very complex world now.
But: it is very easy to start with. Every java programmer can write a Hello World JSP and test it within a few hours. The difficulties only follow later, as soon as things like session handling, DB connections, error handling, reliability etc are considered. But at that time, the devloper is already convinced that - in principle - he can build a solution with J2EE.
A python solution should make it easy to start learning from scratch, that's the pythonic way to go! (just like JSP/J2EE does...). And it should be in the standard module library.
"twisted Fine ideas, very promising, but needs a complete new way of development. I read the docco several hours. It is just too different from everything else, so it is ruled out. You'll never set up some hello world examples after 2 hours like with JSP."
The web is only a small part of twisted. Or did you mean Nevow? I think you could pick of the basics of Nevow very quickly without knowing much about twisted, though you do eventually need to pick up some twisted basics like deferreds, adapters, realms, etc. to be fully proficient with it. The main problem with Nevow as an application framework is the lack of integration with an ORM and the immaturity of some parts (e.g. formless needs a lot of work to be useful for more than simple forms.)