Ian Bicking: the old part of his blog

What really makes rails work comment 000

"But perhaps your point is to remove framework-specific incantations and boilerplate and if so, I agree with that."

That was exactly my point. I've looked at a lot of frameworks over the years, but now if I see anything which imposes arbitrary behaviour, then I just hit the back button, and I think people get put off by seemingly arbitrary restrictions encoded in special ways. I'm trying not to be too controversial here, but if you look at various object publishing mechanisms, you see two things: that the developers assume that a rigid hierarchy is how everyone wants to design their applications; the various ways of telling the framework about exposed objects. Clearly, due to Python's introspection capabilities and the potential for security breaches (ask anyone who has written an object publisher about that) you need the special notation and it needn't be too intrusive (although Quixote's notation seems a bit contrived), but I can't help feeling that many people are thinking, "Hold on! I'm not sure if this even suits me."

It's a similar story with templating. Whilst some of the PSP solutions can be quite productive, if you don't believe it suits your application then the whole thing is going to be a turn off. It's interesting that the most actively developed PSP solution of them all, CherryPy, backed away from special template languages in release 2.0.

"Personally I think a Python version of Rails isn't possible because the Rails developers are willing to do something alien to Pythonista's, that is, break our "Explicit is better than Implicit" creed and create a domain-specific language for Web Applications."

Yes, and Ruby probably supports that quite well. But as you note...

"Admittedly, the history of this kind of magick in Python isn't encouraging. Zope and it's Aquisition turned off a whole section of the Python community."

...it may be the case that Rails eventually is to Ruby what Zope is to Python: something that lives alongside the creation which spawned it.

Comment on Re: What really makes rails work comment 000
by Paul Boddie

Comments:

Why arguing about which of the two of the greatest products should come first?

To me, zope2.x seems harder to modeling/manage enterprise-sized application while 3 seems making routine-task a lot harder for a new-comer than how it can be done with 2.x's ZMI. --Just like in Linux world, some prefer GUI while others value CLI.

Can't they co-exist and collaborate?

Wouldn't it be nice if the future zope3 combines the simplicity of configuring objects with zope2(through its ZMI) and having better capability of handling M/C/V with its current underlying framework?

P.S. I am by no means an expert in either zope or python, so hope you guys don't mind, just trying to make a point here :)

# Michael Lee

To me, zope2.x seems harder to modeling/manage enterprise-sized application while 3 seems making routine-task a lot harder for a new-comer than how it can be done with 2.x's ZMI. --Just like in Linux world, some prefer GUI while others value CLI.

# orbitz airline tickets

That was exactly my point. I've looked at a lot of frameworks over the years, but now if I see anything which imposes arbitrary behaviour, then I just hit the back button, and I think people get put off by seemingly arbitrary restrictions encoded in special ways. I'm trying not to be too controversial here, but if you look at various object publishing mechanisms, you see two things: that the developers assume that a rigid hierarchy is how everyone wants to design their applications; the various ways of telling the framework about exposed objects. Clearly, due to Python's introspection capabilities and the potential for security breaches (ask anyone who has written an object publisher about that) you need the special notation and it needn't be too intrusive (although Quixote's notation seems a bit contrived), but I can't help feeling that many people are thinking, "Hold on! I'm not sure if this even suits me."

# fha forclosure homes