Ian can't agree with you more!! Bascially my feeling is that writing Python should be fun and almost always is!! Python is usually a refreshing break from writing Java, everyday. But Zope isn't a refreshing break from J2EE if you will. Specifically Servlets part of the spec. Sure love plone and the content managment management stuff is great! If Zope was to J2EE as Python is to Java. From what little I have read about Zope 3 it is supposed to be better (which is quite a loose term). Here's hopping.