I'm concerned that the apps tend to hide Python. Yes, the apps are popular but couldn't the same apps be re-written in Ruby? And with the surge in Ruby popularity there are plenty of Ruby developers who can/will give it a try.
I think it's a stretch to equate Zope & Plone popularity with Python. My fear is that to use this spin to soothe the egos of Python developers is worse than throwing in the towel or turning off the lights. You've just gouged out your eyes. And possibly setback Python's hope to go mainstream by about five years.
This is part of why I think it's important, having created applications other people want to use, that we create a situation where they are encouraged to extend and expand upon those applications. An environment of complimentary applications, plugins, and general customizing experience cannot be easily duplicated. So while a nice encapsulated zip file has a certain appeal, I also want people to feel they can jump into the code without destroying the application or getting themselves in trouble in the future.# Ian Bicking
I'm starting to give up the goal of a mainstream Python.
Yesterday I needed a way to reach out from a Python program and respond to a Windows GUI prompt for a password. A prompt that I had not expected when writing the app. Panic time!
I Googled for help and found the watsup module. Wow, what a clean, well designed and documented package. Built on top of other similarly impressive Python packages. I'm grateful for the help, excited to have so much power available to me and anxious to show off this stuff to other programmers. I already liked Python. But this is an additional layer of appreciation. And, although purely as a side note, a good example of the value of a high quality framework.
My real point is that the big win for Python is not the watsup package but that Python, well designed or not, attracted the creator(s) of watsup. I see Python as a filter that only certain people can get past. If scope by indent and crippled threads keep certain people (most Java programmers) away and let the watsup creator pass though, then... maybe that's best.
Maybe the developers who have told me it's better to do it right than be popular are correct. I'll try to find peace with that thought. And be happy to have made it past the filter myself.