Ian Bicking: the old part of his blog

A theory on form toolkits comment 000

Thanks for the (very extensive!) comment.

This sounds a lot like FunFormKit, which was an earlier library I wrote; maybe it's a natural progression. In that library the components were largely how you describe, though error markup happened at the same time as rendering. One major issue was how to deal with dynamic forms. FFK had ways to do this, but it was complex and non-intuitive, even for very straight-forward forms of dynamicism (like dynamic select boxes).

I wrote a small library to generate HTML, mostly for me so I could get rid of a lot of HTML-related logic. The layout was done similarly, but I now feel it's not sufficient -- not just when you are working with a designer, but for that last 10% of a project where you start caring about the little things. I would feel a need to make changes to the layout system for every new form once I got to the last 10%, and that's no good -- the form library should be stable.

For signaling errors to a user, you definitely shouldn't do a redirect or store the errors in a session object. It's easier just to redisplay the form with the errors inline, and make them re-POST the data. One trap to avoid that FunFormKit fell into is overdesigning this process -- let the application call into your library and do the basic control, don't try to hijack the request when an error occurs. That gets way to complicated for no real gain.

Comment on Re: A theory on form toolkits
by Ian Bicking


Interesting. Could you write a short architectural overview of the new system? I'm really interested to find out about the differences in high-level design.

About the HTML generation library: the lib I wrote is a simple mapping to xhtml, i.e. it can generate any xhtml code that you could write in text, I don't find any limitations. It's really just like an XML tree but the various tags are defined as classes themselves, that's all.

For errors: you're right, and indeed I'm not "keeping" the form data in the session, just using the session as a temporary storage to communicate it to the render request for re-rendering the form (since they are separate requests, different children might handle it). The user does re-post all the data.

Oh, I think I get the misunderstanding, I think I forgot to mention that I wrote my code so that requests "just render" and "just handle" are separate urls. i.e. /contact_edit renders the form, /contact_edit_hndl handlers the submit data, and then either redirects back to /contact_edit or to some other page (in case of success). I was debating for a while whether this was a good approach (my background is in desktop apps) and I pretty much like the separation. I don't like for the requests that "just render" to check and "maybe" handle the submit data.

# Martin Blais